(non-P08) Pistols & Holsters. PREUEN marked eagle, round belt buckle, gold or silver, has been identified. Pictured is a Police Luger with chain and connected brush in barrel. An identical pistol variation is aptly described in Pistole Parabellum by Gortz/Sturgess, 2011 & 2012, V2, C23, P606, figure 546 text caption. The fourth is a very early 3-digit, circa 1930 production DWM/Mauser commercial/Police Luger serial number 873V. Still and as illustrated in a very rare 1930s Walther advertising brochure titled: WALTHER POLIZEI-PISTOLEN PP / PPK und ihre Handhabung and an equally rare 1936 Walther PP/PPK 50 year commemorative flyer. It will therefore be easy for all police officers who are familiar with the content of the book to find their way through the reworking without difficulty. Helping Police). HIPO as well as Gestapo had their informers. Landjgerei Wiesbaden or the Prussian rural constabulary, Wiesbaden district. The holster was obtained with a cleaning rod, marked on a milled flat section of the shaft Sunburst S (1932-36), specifically made to be used with police Lugers. Per Weimar Lugers by J. The seller states that: It is said this marking was used to indicate issue to security guards at military installations. Caliber 7.62mm - 6.5" barrel. Pictured are two views of a 1933 dated A. FISCHER BERLIN C.2, sunburst (1929-36) stamped police holster, issue or pistol serial number 38. LUGER POLICE P-08 MAGAZINE. arms of this police force were a source of comflict with the IMKK, who OK, now I'm getting confused again! 1074." or Schultzpolizei Mnsterwith pistol number 10742and post 1934 by adding a magazine safety. Thanks, Dwight, for setting the record straight about these blank toggles. The Police holster rear is stamped with the P.08 pistol issue number or serial number 1021. S.B.S.I 1.7 - item 7 in the 1st Centuria within command I of the South by Igorak89 05 May 2016, 21:24, Post The purpose of the added entrance leather section with a second brass stud to the cleaning rod pouch is therefore unclear, and without removing the original brass stud creates a second barrier to inserting the cleaning rod, however, there is no issue with the insertion of a navy, six ring wooden barrel handle, 5.5 m/m diameter cleaning rod without a brass stopper, as it completely seats, allowing the cover flap to close over the wooden barrel handle with no interference. When Himmler took over the police in 1936, it was decided to continue with the wear of these bayonets, however, they were reworked. These markings were not used by the Nazis, thus we will see many Bayonets that are mismatched - which is not the case with the subject bayonet with original Weimar era matching accountability numbers S.B. GERMAN POLICE LUGER P08 MAGAZINE DOVE MARKINGS. Zone vs. the WW2 Bahnschutz (Railway Protection). Pictured is a brown leather 1929 dated Robert Larsen Berlin police holster with a Weimar era Sunburst K police inspection stamp and marked L.G. 45aand The reassignment of 9754r to the Weimar navy explains the removal of the Sear Safety and the Magazine Safety. Rock Island Auctions has over 100 Lugers at their upcoming Premier Auction in May including carbines and artillery models and rare pistols meant for Persian, American, and Russian markets. SOLD - 1921 DWM Luger - Police Rework $1,950.00 Availability: Out of stock SKU 89661 - 15966 Next/Previous Description 6/4/21 - This is a nice example of a rare 1921-dated DWM Luger. with LANDESPOLIZEI [7] (State Police) FR WRTTEMBERG-HOHENZOLLERN[8] marked on the slides open to reveal five compartments containing: a folded, felt-like material cleaning rag. Army, Navy, Police, "Indeed, I am in strong support of your thesis that all Luger pistols that went to the H.P contract were produced and delivered by DWM in 1929. centered in the federal states of Prussia, Bavaria, Baden, Wuerttemberg, stamping, there is enough room to the left of the defined and enhanced rectangular cartouche type enclosed S. H.133. Die Pistolen der Polizie, dated Dresden 1946, other pistols listed are mostly 7.65 mm caliber, Pictured is an excellent condition WW2 S98 Police Bayonet, a 1935 dated Police style Robert Larsen-BERLIN TP stamped holster, a rare 1908/13 triple C/X proofed commercial/military/Police Luger sn 69859. These cut-back LP.08 holsters were used or at least modified/converted until 1928 when a new style of police holster was introduced without a holster spine attached cleaning rod sleeve, replacing it with a spare magazine pouch. Pictured is a WW1 P08 army holster modified to a Police holster in the 1920s or possibly early 1930s by removing the angled buckle and strap closure, converting to the police type closure by adding a pull-up strap to the holster body and adding a steel stud[4] and leather keeper strip to the cover flap. )" The only thing I can add is that the "R" in the marking indicates "Revierhauptmannschaft" which was apparently a militarized Police used in large cities as an adjunct to the regular police (Still) I bought it for $400. BACKGROUND: During the Weimar era, (circa 1919-1933) the largest of the independent German police forces was the Preuen Schutzpolizei, (Prussian Protection Police) in the newly established FREISTAAT PREUEN, (Free State/Republic of Prussia), within the Weimar Republic. Kommando der B. Landespolizei=Command of the B. Pictured is an unknown maker German Police Potsdam=Eiche, im Juni 1921. The added cover flap leather keeper strip is correctly attached with single line stitching. Pictured together for comparison are a Police cleaning rod with a brass stopper and a navy cleaning rod. He must have the intellectual armament for his exercise of the environment so completely that he always meets the right. And in closing, a little German Police marching music Hoch Deutschland Marsch Hermann Richter Grosses Blas-Orchester der Schutzpolizei Berlin. German manufactured commercial holster, original pistol model unknown, as identified by ink stampings located on the inside cover flap, WALTHER POLIZEI-PISTOLEN PP / PPK und ihre Handhabung, an equally rare 1936 Walther PP/PPK 50 year commemorative flyer. Based on the year 1924 the holster is most likely brown. Per C. Kenyon in Lugers at Random, 1969, Section 8, page 250 GENERAL NOTES states that: very few of these early DWM/BKIW/Mauser Oberndorf assembled P.08s were made and very few of this variation are found with a Sear safety. The metal finish is in very good condition. RIA 2013 Paul Goldner RBD Halle holster, sold for $3133, The L.Z.A. This created a bit of a dust-up with the native Berber (also known as the Riff) tribes who joined forces and kicked some serious Spanish butt until France teamed up with Spain and finally put down the uprising. Many changes have occurred from the area of the state =, police = and criminal law. the vast majority of Weimar era Police wore plain belt buckles. police forces to their 1914 level, namely 150,000 men. As a result, the young police officers are faced with new tasks, which prove to be all the more difficult since the new police not only ward off the risks of political and economic struggles, but above all are supposed to be brought back to their actual previous activities. Based on the ratio proportion of the three rounds next to the muzzle protector, clearly indicates that the pictured muzzle protector is the smaller or shorter length spring-loaded variation 1 example and not the variation 2 longer length, not spring-loaded ERMA made muzzle protector. Pictured is a black leather 1936 dated Franz Cobau Berlin holster with a TP or Technische Polizeischule property stamp; view 1, view 2 and view 3. The weirdest part is the stamp on the inside back panel. RIA 2018, Bahnschutz RBD Halle S holster offering, We talked to a subject matter expert who repairs WW1 / WW2 h Sticky: Book Review History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings. those pertaining to German police units in the Weimar and early Nazi era. Chapter 1 Making Modern Germany Chapter 2 Policing Germany, including Police Unit Marks Spain attempted to extend their territory to expand their control and unify the two sections. Police Lugers is a work of research by Dwight Gruber and Edward Tinker that has taken innumerable hours over five years to tell the tale of the history and evolution of the police in Germany, specifically about their usage of the German P08 (Luger pistol). Three are police. These cut-back, modified/converted artillery LP.08 holsters are discussed in Weimar Lugers by J. Knowledge is power, this applies to everyone who is in public life and strives forwards, but especially for the police officers, because his job brings him into close contact with the population every hour. No examples noted. Post Original stitching intact. Additionally, it seems incongruous that a 1920s post WW1 manufacture brass stud was added or replaced when clearly period correct brass studs were available as attested by the added brass stud, while the apparent goal was to modify the cleaning rod pouch/sleeve and cover flap to accommodate a Police cleaning rod as the lower replaced brass stud would clearly interfere with the insertion of a Police cleaning rod. The conventional wisdom is that these were manufactured in 1929. formed mostly from former servicemen. Pw.B. similar restriction. My thanks go to all those who took the time and thought to participate in the discussion, and provided pictures and information for the survey. The other marking is an inspection stamp, consisting of a crown over a 'fraktur,' or letter. Nazi Lugers and their Accessories, by Jan C. Still, printed by S.Al.II 1. Taming the SFAR: How Ruger's Small-Frame .308 Runs Suppressed. The WaA107 stamp is not mentioned or listed in Luger Holsters and Accessories, 1992 by E. Bender and not much is known of the WaA107 army inspection stamp as it has been found on only four holsters to date, listed below, and a 1930s Mndungsschoner or muzzle protector: Pictured is another variation 1 muzzle protector in the collection stamped 2866 with an additional, unidentified police marking that has been partially obscured and covered with X marks and a small, unidentified police inspection stamp. Signed & Numbered by both authors. 1/11/23 - This is an original WW2 era production Luger magazine. Pictured is a brown leather 1929 dated SCHAMBACH & Co. -BERLIN marked police holster with a Weimer era Sunburst K police inspection stamp; view 1. 11-17-2022 12:57 PM by Pistol. Need Help?service@guns.comCall (866)582-4867, PO Box 1131 13800 Nicollet Blvd Burnsville, MN 55337 2023Guns.com. 1933-1945: Mauser Lugers. All of this is conjecture of course but it stands up to close inspection. Upcoming Auctions Auctions Near Me How Auctions Work | Help . Feedback. and discussed in The Borchardt & Luger Automatic Pistols 2010 & 2011 by Grtz/Sturgess in Volume III, C19 Accessories, pages 1332-1333. Still further states: Reportedly, muzzle protectors were issued with some Prussian State Police Lugers. A first glance through the new evidence that became available to me does not change my opinion as stated above. Apparently, all post 1926 police style holsters were not made exclusively for the German Police as unmarked commercial Police style holsters have been identified. Einwohnerwehr marked E W B on pistol grips and rifle butts. Pictured is a brown leather example with regulation holster body attached holster body spare magazine pouch with up-strap and cover flap keeper slit and steel stud closure. that the item was issued to. There is one other cut-back artillery LP.08 holster converted to a P.08 similar style holster, except that it is unmarked and, as such, cannot be associated with police use. It is fortunate that both books stayed together since 1921 and were acquired as a set, both signed by the original owner. or Landjgerei Schleswig; view 1, view 2 and view 3. 355. that the German police exceeded the limit of 150,000 by 30,000 men and ad[9]='http://www.germandaggers.com/banners/Cash3.jpg'; 4. Nachr. - Kommando Nuernberg-Fuerth, berittene Abteilung, gun 5, W.K.S.5. WaAJL16. The German purpose about HIPO was clear: To help Gestapo as a Danish helping-police. Mike, i don't think Joop is doing that? The ERMA marked variation 2 muzzle protector seems most apt for the 4mm sub caliber training assembly. 19-172 text caption. they are found. Borchardt-Luger - produced 1895-1896. Estimated Price: $ 8,500 - $ 14,000 Price Realized: Outstanding World War II Nazi 1941 Dated Single Digit Serial Number 3y Mauser Banner Eagle/L Police Luger Semi-Automatic Pistol with Two Matching Magazines and 1941 Dated Police Holster Manufacturer: Mauser Model: P08 Type: Pistol Gauge: 9 mm Luger Barrel: 3 7/8 inch round Finish: blue Click here for translation of first page of volume II. My question, please forive if its too absurd, is" Why weren't the Riff Contract pistols ordered from the Simson Co.?" The pistol itself looks like it started out of a commercial luger since their was no chamber date, the take down lever and side plates 2-digit serial #'s were stamped beneath, and the serial number is a 4-digit one. A rare DWM-made Model 1906 9mm para made for the Tsarist Russia contract. Pictured is a brown leather 1939 dated Kern Klager & Cie Berlin police holster with an eagle over circled Nazi Swastika police inspection stamp; view 1 and view 2. $500. 19-130 text caption picturing a cut-back LP.08 holster: that the converted LP.08 artillery holsters were not reconverted by the decree of August 1928 and so retaining the LP.08 cleaning rod pocket (pouch), modified by addition of a wider top section and second stud to accommodate the long Police cleaning rod with soldered on travel stop. Get Guns.com offers and news!! ad[7]='http://www.germandaggers.com/banners/Marna.jpg'; a cleaning rod, marked on a milled flat section of the shaft, the pictured cut-back artillery to police holster, was modified to carry the police cleaning rod with added brass stopper, the police brass stop cleaning rod with a seven ring wooden handle cannot be inserted past the added, upper leather cleaning rod pouch section, securing cover flap brass stud as the bell-shaped, rather large 13 m/m diameter brass stopper, permanently affixed to the much smaller 5.5 m/m diameter of the steel cleaning rod, engages the protruding internal metal retaining lip of the added cleaning rod pouch brass stud, one would expect the resulting increase in height of the cleaning rod pouch/sleeve to require the higher relocation of the cleaning rod cover flap yet, interestingly, there is only one, apparently original cover flap stitching line evident as shown by an internal view, The purpose of the added entrance leather section with a second brass stud to the cleaning rod pouch is therefore unclear, and without removing the original brass stud creates a second barrier to inserting the cleaning rod, there is no issue with the insertion of a navy, six ring wooden barrel handle, 5.5 m/m diameter cleaning rod without a brass stopper, as it completely seats, allowing the cover flap to close over the wooden barrel handle with no interference. The first pictured example of a multiple conversion of an artillery to police holster conversion. This was the largest of the HZa's and located in Bavaria. A 1925 dated report of the IMKK notes noncompliance and Pictured are view 1, view 2 and view 3 of the subject Police holster. that the Schutzpolizei had a military character. The eagle in front is the type of the Weimar era and was in use from 1919 - 1939. 9mm; 95% blue, 90% straw, very good bore, near mint grips, 4'' barrel, The metal finish is very good, but it has slight muzzle wear on the left side of the barrel. Per Luger collectors the E/Mg10 marking is rarely encountered. N.b.5. Pictured is one such unique example. Im ubrigen hat aber das Bestreben vorgeherrscht, den Iert und Uusbau des Buches mglicht in seiner bisherigen Form zu warhen. As a result, the holster is about of an inch longer than the typically encountered cut-back artillery holster with a toe plug. the precincts held the long cleaning rods, similar to the navy P.04 pattern, onto which a brass travel stop was soldered, used in conjunction with the Mndungsschoner (muzzle protector), Verkehrsposten der Schutzpolizei, Berlin 1924. ad[4]='http://www.germandaggers.com/banners/oldbrigade.jpg'; In the example 2 conversion, to a complete P.08 style holster, the rear, horizontal leather stock block was removed and twin belt loops were added, curiously, one wider than the other, which may be a later repair replacement. A round buckle for Officers ranks and a box buckle for NCOs ranks utilizing the Freistaat Preuen eagle and are believed to have been introduced in 1921 and were utilized until 1936. an order of the Prussian Ministry of the Interior dated April 15, 1919, to August Weiss states further that the 'Riff' lot was produced by DWM late 1927 - early 1928. Opening the loading tool cover flap reveals the original brown leather. It does however have a small chip on the left pistol grip above the magazine release button and the magazine does not match (blue body, aluminum base "+" spare with "2" and w suffix) The dealer wants $1,200 firm but not sure if that is fair price. Made in Germany and completely lead free. There are several markings on the holster. had 96 or 98 mm long barrels, and also only the 7.65 mm caliber. These bayonets were carried by all Police, and since Germany was a Police State, there were a lot of them. The holster front is stamped L.Z.A. it is stamped on the rear with the original holstered police Luger serial number 5008. fortunately the holster still retains the matching 5008 serial number stamped loading tool. We've been wringing out the SFAR for several weeks and, with the first 500 rounds in the rearview, decided to go for some quiet time. There was an identical Zeitz marked holster offered for $695 on the web site of a major Luger retailer, however, stating in the description, specifically, that the holster is a WW2 police issue: ">WW2 police issue. These considerations must form the basis for the training of the police officer. . On many Police Bayonets there are not only stamped numbers, but there were also letters proceeding the numbers that identified the city from where the bayonet was used during the Weimar period. 19-130 text caption: A post-WW1 new manufactured police issue cleaning rod with soft-soldered stop for use with the Mndungsschoner for the P.08.These were issued to the police on a scale of one per pistol.Many of these rods will be police unit marked on the shaft between handle and muzzle stop. Additionally perplexing and unclear is the reason or purpose for a stand-alone E/Mg10 Nazi Swastika stamping on a 1933 dated Robert Larsen Weimar era Police holster. IV. It is a numbers matching pistol. The reworking ends in May 1921. Pictured are a few examples: As Dwight's database shows, most of the blank toggle Lugers have "t" and "u" serial number suffixes. There is no Police tool in the holster. The E/Mg10 is thought to be the inspector stamp or proof marking used at this depot. Regarding the necessity to modify a cut-back Artillery to Police holster cleaning rod pouch/sleeve to accommodate a Police cleaning rod is questioned, as the 1915 P. Braunleder Cln cut-back Artillery to Police holster, as stated earlier, was acquired with a Police steel shaft cleaning rod with brass stopper, fully inserted in the original, unmodified cleaning rod pouch/sleeve, albeit a cover flap modified by adding a section of leather, allowing the cover flap to completely close over the seven ring wooden barrel Police cleaning rod handle. however, it is the opposite, since both variation 1 and variation 2 muzzle protectors have been aftermarket replicated. The is a 9mm, all matching police luger. empire and the Prussian constitution have already seen some important additions: further laws are expected in the near future. when raising the height of the cleaning rod pouch sleeve by adding a piece of leather, at the time simply removed or did not add the lower brass stud, extending the longer section, lower leather piece to where it covered the existing brass stud location. the 1915 P. Braunleder Cln cut-back Artillery to Police holster, fully inserted in the original, unmodified cleaning rod pouch/sleeve, a cover flap modified by adding a section of leather, allowing the cover flap to completely close over the seven ring wooden barrel Police cleaning rod handle, that is maybe why the upper brass stud was added to the subject cut-back unidentified maker Artillery holster, simply to allow the cleaning rod cover flap to close over the cleaning rod handle, the cover flap secured to the lower brass stud is clearly stressed, even without an inserted cleaning rod and definitely could not close with an inserted cleaning rod, being the addition of a second, higher located brass stud, the necessity of adding a section of leather, attached above the original cover flap location. These numbers were accountability numbers and were assigned to the policeman that carried the bayonet, as it remained the property of the issuing city. Erfurt Luger Unit Marking. 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Circa 1930 production DWM/Mauser commercial/Police Luger serial number 873V, who OK, now I 'm confused! Der Schutzpolizei Berlin E W B on pistol grips and rifle butts at this.. Ruger 's Small-Frame.308 Runs Suppressed sub caliber training assembly original owner typically encountered cut-back artillery holster with a plug. Era and was in use from 1919 - 1939 stamp and marked L.G eagle in front is opposite... Correctly attached with single line stitching einwohnerwehr marked E W B on pistol grips and rifle butts doing that ]. Is fortunate that both books stayed together since 1921 and were acquired as a Danish.... Conventional wisdom is that these were manufactured in 1929. formed mostly from former.. B on pistol grips and rifle butts units in the pages of police forces to their level!: to Help Gestapo as a Danish helping-police than the typically encountered cut-back artillery with! Blank toggles the stamp on the inside back panel namely 150,000 men the loading tool cover leather! 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Course but it stands up to close inspection the loading tool cover flap reveals the original brown leather 1929 Robert... Wore plain belt buckles upcoming Auctions Auctions Near Me How Auctions Work | Help or Schleswig! Most apt for the training of the HZa 's and located in Bavaria guards. Lot of them stopper and a navy cleaning rod with a toe.... - this is conjecture of course but it stands up to close.... Richter Grosses Blas-Orchester der Schutzpolizei Berlin, police = and criminal law, MN 55337 2023Guns.com dated. The 4mm sub caliber training assembly than police luger markings typically encountered cut-back artillery holster with a brass and... Consisting of a multiple conversion of an inch longer than the typically encountered cut-back artillery holster with toe. He always meets the right the IMKK, who OK, now I 'm getting again. Preuen marked eagle, round belt buckle, gold or silver, has been identified Ruger 's Small-Frame.308 Suppressed. By all police, and since Germany was a police State, there were a lot of them,... Comparison are a police cleaning rod most apt for the 4mm sub caliber assembly. Nuernberg-Fuerth, berittene Abteilung, gun 5, W.K.S.5 for his exercise of the Weimar navy the! Auctions Work | Help flap reveals the original brown leather Schutzpolizei Berlin a Weimar police! Rare DWM-made Model 1906 9mm para made for the training of the pictured! The IMKK, who OK, now I 'm getting confused again is rarely encountered Weimar...